Lex: Unless we extinguish all seeds of desire, rebirth is inescapable. Lis: That's the classic Hindu, Jain, and Buddhist doctrine, isn't it? Lex: I choose to think of it this way: the real issue is patterned conditioning: the feeling you gotta have something.Whether that means rebirth or not is irrelevant. Ron: Patterned conditioning is part of being human: food, air, sleep, sex, and self-worth are things no healthy person can do without. And without patterned conditioning, many tasks would be impossible. Lis: I agree, and that's why moderation is important. Rather than trying to eliminate desire it's healthier to accept it without undue clinging. A preference is not an obsession.